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The Reds at Your Back   

   Posted by Khram  Promoted 279 days 6 hours ago  3040 views  editorial  

    Politics / World  |   Comments 19 comments  | 

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After a hiatus due to other personal shit, I've decided to write another boring, dry editorial on Canadian politics concerning minority governments and how some elements of the American system may be a good thing for this country, considering the political clusterfuck we're currently in.


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Khram, on 6/15/2009 7:15:50 PM
Total Posts: 623, Joined: 7/9/2007
I would like to add a correction. I said Harper's budget was approved by the World Bank. It was approved by the International Monetary Fund, found at:

http://www2.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=1377778
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waffleman, on 6/15/2009 7:33:14 PM
Total Posts: 1514, Joined: 4/8/2006
I think the Federal Govt should be totally abolished and replaced by a council of the Premiers.Transfer all Authority to make laws to the Individual Provinces for their Jurisdiction. I would also abolish the Party system. None of the parties really represent the Voters. The MP's do what their leader tells them or they get booted out of the party. Bill Casey is a prime example of this. When we have a pyramid Government system of any kind, it's too easy for a small group or people to be corrupted and Get power hungry.
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Khram, on 6/15/2009 7:41:58 PM
Total Posts: 624, Joined: 7/9/2007
I wrote an editorial with that idea long ago, waffleman. I don't know if it is still on here or if it was lost to the mass deletions. I'm too lazy to look, in any case.

However, that system also has flaws. Canadian regionalism would take over and our population isn't very evenly distributed. Ontario would have all the power and the West and Quebec would have more separatist notions. Perhaps not so much Quebec because they have a large population too, but especially the West which has a relatively small population and huge resources.

I agree that the system needs reform, but looking on that past idea, I see some gaping flaws. I definitely agree on the point that the MPs do what their leader tells them to. Example.

I live in Thunder Bay. Our MP is Bruce Hyer (NDP). Hyer wanted to vote against the long gun registry, which is directly opposite Layton's position, but in accordance with the position of most of the citizens of this riding. Basically some shit went down and Hyer was barred from voting. That isn't democracy at all. If you're interested:

http://netnewsledger.com/index.php?option=com_content&v
iew=article&id=135:raffertty-and-hyer-support-dumping-long-gun-registr
y&catid=39:northwestern-ontario-news&Itemid=90

The first one is Hyer's position.


http://www.chroniclejournal.com/stories_local.php?id=18
1359

And there is the shit that went down.
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VooDooMaGiKk, on 6/15/2009 8:10:09 PM
Total Posts: 222, Joined: 8/6/2008
yer, much the same in Australia, the shadow deals in parliment really defeat the purpose of voting for them on what they offer as to do that they will have to help some one elses agenda in our case usually the idiotic Family First party (chistian values etc), which is pretty apparent with the mandatory ISP filter the government is trying to put in place, which looks very much like a deal the Labour party used to get its workplace reforms though

but recently the Greens and a independent MP gained more seats in parliament and they are generally more focused on doing what the Australian voters actually want them to do

the easiest way to overcome it is to not vote for the same knob jockeys that hampering the government from doing what needs doing, send a clear message at the next election, or vote in a majority, you may have to concede on a few personal preference grounds but it may make a bigger difference in the end

but as much as i hate the way the party system works, it probably is the only way the government could function as it is, and i really can not see a alternative to it
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Khram, on 6/15/2009 8:18:09 PM
Total Posts: 625, Joined: 7/9/2007
Good points, VooDoo.

I think smaller, more accountable government is definitely a step towards a solution to the problem.

With the Party System, you do have to make concessions on personal grounds. If you haven't guessed from the editorial, I'm a Conservative. But I disagree with the Conservatives on some issues like gay marriage. But those are smaller things that we can reform and put pressure on the government to change their position.

I think at the moment the Conservatives would do the least amound of damage, considering the alternatives. There needs to be less focus on partisanship and more focus on the individual leadership of prime ministerial candidates. Furthermore in the Canadian system, the PM candidates should be voted for by the people themselves, rather than be party-appointed. I know MPs represent us, but they often do a shitty job of it. They are more concerned with keeping their job than serving their riding, often times. Naturally, they'll tend to follow whatever the party leader says, rather than what their constituents want.
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VooDooMaGiKk, on 6/15/2009 10:15:35 PM
Total Posts: 223, Joined: 8/6/2008
i like the idea of the voters picking the candidates a lot as it would remove the old boys club aspect a bit and make the MPs work harder to gain the respect of the voters

just a quick question regarding the opposition coalition you mention, is that always the same parties working together or do all the parties that did not get majority just band together to seize control despite the public voting otherwise?
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damasterwc, on 6/15/2009 10:32:12 PM
Total Posts: 435, Joined: 5/30/2006
why the hell should the IMF or the world bank approve any sovereign nation's budget?! you live in a dream world if you think the british empire is dead...
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damasterwc, on 6/15/2009 10:34:11 PM
Total Posts: 436, Joined: 5/30/2006
and you aussies need a real constitution, one that defines you as citizens of australia, not subjects of the queen.
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VooDooMaGiKk, on 6/15/2009 11:07:57 PM
Total Posts: 224, Joined: 8/6/2008
dont really care, and its not like we have any major problems with the way its working either so if it aint broken why fix it?
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quincy0191, on 6/16/2009 1:48:31 PM
Total Posts: 682, Joined: 4/14/2006
I don't think you guys want the American system of government. It elected Bush twice. That's bad.

American people do NOT have direct election of their presidents. The system is closer to direct election than the Canadian system, but by no means is it direct. Al Gore won the popular vote in 2000, but George Bush got the presidency. Admittedly, that has happened only twice in US history, and there is good reason for the electoral college, but believing that the American people have direct control over which president is elected is a delusion.

IMO, America would be better served adopting the Canadian election process. The US government is extremely corrupt and extremely poorly managed. We have so much wasted effort and money it's ridiculous. Lots of that comes with growth; in a nation of 300 million people with a GDP around $15 trillion you're not going to get an optimal government, because there are too many people who can get away with fleecing the system, both within the government and outside of it. But corruption is our biggest problem, and the fact that we have to wait four years to elect a new president is a serious issue.

American presidents can only serve one term. There have only been two impeachments in US history, and neither of those guys (Andrew Jackson and Bill Clinton) were actually removed from office. Since no one can serve more than two terms, once a president is re-elected, he can do fuck all and get away with it, especially if his party is in power in Congress. In his first term, he can usually do whatever he wants within the first two or three years and get away with it, because the American people have short attention spans and don't remember things that happened two or three years before an election. Parties can manipulate the system far too easily.

And yes, there are idiots out there who don't pay enough attention and don't understand politics. This is true in both Canada and America, and it will always be true in both countries. Ideally, we'd have a well-informed population who cares enough to vote, but watching the news and caring about politics takes time and energy many people would rather spend drinking beer and watching American Idol. Then you have to go out and vote, and that's just a huge pain in the ass; besides, Hogan Knows Best is on right after the commercial break!

Basically, if your biggest complaint about your government is that the people are ignorant and don't show any signs of changing, you've got some pretty good problems. America's government and economy are going to collapse in a few years thanks to decades of deficit spending (which is fine in a recession/depression, but definitely not something you should do because you can, and you should pay off the debt ASAP once things get better) and corruption, and then you won't be clamoring for the American way of doing things.

Oh, and yes, America and Canada should cooperate a lot more, we are essentially the same country (except for Quebec...), although IMO you will not see one country formally conquer/annex/purchase another, simply because of the global media and how bad that would be for their foreign policy.

As for the size of government, there's a bit of a catch-22; small governments have less corruption, because there is more accountability on a local level and more involvement, but larger governments are far better at handling problems and making changes in a global environment. Small governments simply don't have the personnel, finances, or strength to make serious changes if (when) they are called for. It's a trade-off: corruption or ineffectiveness?

@damasterwc:

The British Empire is practically dead. Technically, I believe Canada is still a British province, but they don't need British involvement to operate. Australia is an independent country, although for some reason they still have Queen Elizabeth II as their monarch, though I don't imagine she has any real power.

EDIT: I fixed the World Bank/IMF thing and included the link.
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