"Turkey denies that the events of 1915 constituted genocide, saying that no more than 300,000 Armenians perished at the time.

Officials insists that most of the Armenians died from hunger and disease after they were forcibly deported from eastern Turkey for having collaborated with invading Russian forces in the last days of the Ottoman Empire."

What a biased form of news posting, they can't even post news without taking sides. Turkey doesn't deny that a large number of *people*, not just Armenian, died at the time due to various reasons, but there is absolutely no evidence at all, pointing to a *systematic cleansing* ie. genocide and in fact, what "hard" evidence there is which have been studied, only points to that it wasn't a genocide at all, but tell that to half the world who so apparently posses clairvoyant-quality abilities, as they reach conclusions based on absolutely nothing, besides their political agendas and lobbying power. There were just as many Romanians besides a few more ethnic groups and yet you don't get to hear anyone giving a fuck about them. Why? Because they haven't "lobbied" to impose made-up shit with political agenda on anyone so far. have millions of documents in our archives from the period and they are open to public, yet no genocide-claimant has ever bothered to look at them. What's more, they even abandon any platform whatsoever whenever the suggestion "researching and studying archives for substantial evidence to find the truth" comes up.

@denizsi

Funny. That could be paraphrased for the Holocaust too...

It doesn't seem you are fit for discussing the Armenian genocide seeing as you're a Turk, as your national media is lobbying the other direction. The pot calling the kettle black I fear is the expression.

So you shoot the man? Right. Very civil. You have a long way to go before you get into the EU. At this rate Macedonia will get in before you, and they haven't started accession talks yet.

Yeah, I'm not really into System Of A Down. It's mostly because I'm not a 14-year-old manic depressive girl. But also because I can't stand godawful 'music' performed by talentless hacks/posers.
Turkey's got a very long way to go before it gets into the EU. Most Europeans balk at the idea. It's not even a proper secular democracy...

Breakdown of Switchace being a moron:

(1) "Funny. That could be paraphrased for the Holocaust too..."

Well, some retards literally do that, out of stubbornness or idiocy, like some of the Iran officials, however the differences between the two incidents are just immense. Let's start with dates. For something which took place about 60 years ago, The Holocaust is still relatively recent. We still have first-hand witnesses alive and kicking, we *had* such witnesses who testified to no end, who lived to tell the world. The amount of documents, of first-hand military orders, of now-dead witnesses, of resistance movements, of press etc., of actual footage which have been released to the public by then are (1)immense, (2)studied by academicians around the whole world and (3)recognized by practically everyone. Finally, some of those incident sites are still preserved and prints of the past can be observed even today. So much so that it only takes an internet search to reach many of such documents and or photographs. Existence of The Holocaust still resonates strongly with all the solid evidence in existence and in knowledge, which are beyond the shadow of any doubt. However, some of the figures might have been exaggerated by Jewish lobbyists even though it's pointless because of the monstrosity itself of The Holocaust.

Let's look at the alleged Armenian genocide now. It's been over almost 90 years since it happened. There isn't one single witness alive and when they *were* alive, no one was giving a fuck about them (wonder why). No press, international or local, have been present at anytime during the alleged actions to document them and no insiders alike. So far, there hasn't been found one single document of any kind, pointing to a systematic "cleansing" of certain groups, from within the authorities of the period.

However, many academicians believe that everything is documented down to minute-details at the time and all of these documents can be found in our archives. The problem is, we have over 300 millions of documents from the period but insufficiant man power to study them healthily. Now let's add some drama to this: Turkey has tried several times to organize academic conferances, inviting any academic party wishing to participate. The aim was to found a friendly coordination to open our archives and let *everyone* study them systematically, hand-in-hand, to settle on the truth. Armenian representers first joined and then suddenly left all such attempts without any solid explanations, causing the whole situation to end up completely unresolvable. Now, don't delude yourself, this is very real. They have never responded to any kind of academic attempts to restore relations on the subject, because they simply don't want resolution, they want unconditional surrender. They have long abandoned the subject on all academic platforms and instead have been going fully charged on any political platform they can arrange.

While at it, let me tell you that of all the documents in archives, the ones which have been studied so far and found to be related to the incident, points out that the forced departure of, not just Armenians, but all the groups, seems to be nothing but *drastic* security measures. As an American, I can't expect you to know much about our history, but the long story short is, the country was under a very literal invasion back then, and some of those ethnic groups who double-crossed the people they used to live together, were causing very large scale deaths. The number of people who died because others sold them out to the Russians is quite high, a figure close to the death toll of the alleged genocide itself. You might like to think about that for a moment, in a way that your neighbor is literally sending you to death for his or her own salvation. These are not words by a spon-fed blind nationalist, but by a well-read person who's trying to pay his conscious debt by doing his best to study and reach the truth. This is my debt to this nation and it's not to simply watch the news and read the newspapers and to take their input for granted.

(2) "It doesn't seem you are fit for discussing the Armenian genocide seeing as you're a Turk, as your national media is lobbying the other direction. The pot calling the kettle black I fear is the expression."

What kind of fucked up logic is that? By that mentality, no one is capable of driving a healthy and objective arguement based on his or her own national identity, and with the syndicated American mainstream press, this should hold especially true for Americans. So I guess you'll simply have to keep your mouth shut if I start making up some shit about US' past. So, every nation shall leave their own past to another one to study so people can fill each other up with nothing but made up shit. Well, that is outrageously ridiculous. If you're convinced that I can not comprehend the subject and make an arguement and not a blind fight over it just because I'm Turk, it shows a lot more about yourself than mine.

Also, you know, in my post, I didn't write something like "this is bullshit, armenians suck etc.", I actually gave you some information. I mentioned the other ethnic groups who also have been affected alongside Armenians but unmentioned so far. I mentioned the complete inability of the international platform to base any of their allegations on hard evidence beyond any shadow of doubt.

Other than what I said and am saying, you should inform your own self to see that, besides the spreading trend of accepting the claim, there still isn't a complete consensus among the reputable academic scenes. History should be left to historians, not bloody politicians or political campaigns.

Finally, you would also do yourself good to learn that the Turkish mainstream press, unlike the US mainstream press, haven't been syndicated to carry out the government's bidding, not just yet. Actually, there is almost everyday a conflict, a clash of mentalities between the governments and the mainstream press. No sir, our press still enjoys some of the freedom long lost in the West. No FOX-alikes in the mainstream here. Even our own CNN is better than what passes as news channel as far as objectivity and journalism go. But I have to admit; they are slowly going downhill.

(3) "So you shoot the man? Right. Very civil."

I can't tell if this was addressed at me, and one can only hope that it wasn't, because it would take a complete moron to write it as an answer to me and let me explain why:

"I have no hope however that this will reveal the agenda behind the murder."

I beg you to tell me if the mere fact that I used the expression "I have no hope.." can *let* an interpretation by anyone to reach the conclusion that what I wrote expresses my sentiments of approval over the murder, disappointment over the capture of the murderer and a triumph over the prediction that his capture won't help to uncover the political agenda behind the murder. That, mere use of that expression, should make it clear that I'm glad the murderer is caught but can't feel that good due to it because I don't believe that murderer will admit everything, like who has told him to do it.

If not addressed at me, you still have to be pretty much a moron because of your own lack of knowledge about the social reaction to the murder, the context of the post-murder and why it matters. It's not a fuck-minded nationalist going postal and murdering someone all by himself. Such people do exist, but they exist because there are political and religious "cults" (for the lack of a better word. If it sounds too exotic for you, you can also use "organisations" instead of cults) working towards it. Such a fucker doesn't in any way represent the average citizen. Just fucking look at our newspapers or news sites to see the photographs, the videos portraying the life on the street immediately after the murder, over the muder.

All that said, I probably should make it clear that I'm shocked by this murder and I feel bad that it happenned. I feel terrible that there are people who brainwash, train and send these killers into the crowds, and they get away with it.

(4) "You have a long way to go before you get into the EU."

I agree, but due to different reasons. This single incident, this bloody murder isn't indicative of anything on that matter. Either as an isolated incident, or as a part of a plot, it has completely no difference than what has been going for a long time around the world.

(5) "At this rate Macedonia will get in before you, and they haven't started accession talks yet."

You know, and I'm saying this honestly now, any country, just *any* one of them, will make it into EU before us. Because, other than having our own fucked-up problems, we are a tool which unites the other countries, something to fight against together. If you aren't following the EU's progress closely, you wouldn't know, but there is a very obvious hypocrisy against us, a complete application of double standards, as many other countries who does make it also have their own fucked-up problems, some more severe than ours. It wasn't for nothing that the House of Lords of Britain felt the urge to point this out.

Oh, I forgot to mention: I don't give a rat's ass if it was indeed a genocide or not. I can be happy with both answers, as long as it's true.

Tl:dr

Honestly, you should try type less, you nearly out did that article.

My point is this: As a Turk, it's understandable that you would be against the idea that Turkey committed genocide.
Just like as an American I would not like the idea that my country committed genocide. But I do accept that we have done some fucked up things in our short history.

As far as my knowledge about Turkish politics goes I know a couple of things:

Turkey most probably did commit what we would today call genocide against the Armenians and other ethics groups.

Turkey has a breakaway pseudo state in the North of the Republic of Cyprus.

Turkey is fighting a loosing war against the Kurds in the East, Washington couldn't care less either because we pay enough to have our bases in your country we don't give a fuck what it costs you politically.

Turkey has been in plenty of coups by the military (1997 I think was the last) because they were not happy about the elected officials.

The military is not happy about the idea that one day they will have to demilitarise occupied Cyprus.

The military is worried that if the EU pushes them out of the sphere of influence in Turkish politics, hard line Muslims will fill the vacuum.

Nationalism is on the increase. And nothing was ever going to be done about EU talks because elections are too close.

I'm not going to get into a quote war. I have better things to do.

But I will mention that I don't watch FOX or American Media much, I generally listen to BBC World Service on Satellite Radio and watch the Daily Show because politics here are far too depressing right now.